tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post416040650601075462..comments2023-10-24T11:03:41.388-05:00Comments on ladypoverty: Crises of consumerismJ.R. Boydhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09076895859826581960noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-31871201868246877702010-05-28T13:35:45.510-05:002010-05-28T13:35:45.510-05:00So, I don't "consume" a taco, I &quo...So, I don't "consume" a taco, I "product use" a corn based commodity?<br /><br />It's a dessert topping and a floorwax!zencomixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02425613931488064403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-54782446409100484542010-05-28T10:57:57.475-05:002010-05-28T10:57:57.475-05:00Coldtype,
This is why I don't really identify...Coldtype,<br /><br />This is why I don't really identify "left": left and right are positions in parliament, and it's only in parliament (or analogous institutions) that you get this kind of posturing.<br /><br />I do think it's necessary to <i>support</i> left positions in parliament, at least insofar as you have that and nothing else, but increasingly I don't <i>identify</i> with "the left" at all -- only to the extent that others do in their pursuit of basic survival.<br /><br />I think the spectrum of concerns we should really be focused on is vertical, not horizontal.JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-43295602229204192172010-05-27T19:08:21.502-05:002010-05-27T19:08:21.502-05:00Who exactly is it that you think you're talkin...Who exactly is it that you think you're talking to, Michael?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-36289956369491585832010-05-27T17:50:48.624-05:002010-05-27T17:50:48.624-05:00JRB this episode neatly sums up what I find most t...JRB this episode neatly sums up what I find most tiresome about many of us on the left.. we're precious, delicate creatures who are far too easily offended.Coldtypehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509152474515164151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-75048618854727204912010-05-27T17:04:29.721-05:002010-05-27T17:04:29.721-05:00This post is both wrong and sloppy, despite the fa...<i>This post is both wrong and sloppy, despite the familiarity of its pseudo-leftist jargon-tossing.</i><br /><br />Well, perhaps it departs from your preferences, but I like to think that's because I'm not <i>you</i>, and subsequently have preferences of my own, thanks to my own circumstances and concerns. Hence a blog in which I articulate them!<br /><br />Anyway, that's normal. What is <i>abnormal</i> to me is your strange insistence on conflict where there needn't be one, as is the case when two people don't understand each other's meanings in the first place!JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-79303604955602173412010-05-27T15:54:00.665-05:002010-05-27T15:54:00.665-05:00"As to blame, Jack and I can't make minds..."As to blame, Jack and I can't make minds meet, as he says. He thinks putting most of the blame on the overclass is somehow saying the masses have zero. He can't seem to free himself from that loop."<br /><br />I've neither thought not said that. That's you reading into it.<br /><br />But thank you for at least confirming my reading of your complaint, or its origins:<br /><br />"To say it is to blame the masses more than the capitalists."Jack Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499087036876745723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-55030516285817517242010-05-27T15:46:51.082-05:002010-05-27T15:46:51.082-05:00It is also wise to inquire into the logic and orig...It is also wise to inquire into the logic and origins of one's concepts, not to mention one's arguments. People are product users, not consumers. If you can't get that into your head and see why doing so matters, well, I've said my piece. Is "employee" your chosen term for talking about workers, though?<br /><br />A democratization of capital, if the phrase has any meaning, would be a spread of serious investment stakes and interests throughout a population. That has not happened.<br /><br />As to blame, Jack and I can't make minds meet, as he says. He thinks putting most of the blame on the overclass is somehow saying the masses have zero. He can't seem to free himself from that loop.<br /><br />Meanwhile, talking about "culture" rather than power being the engine of "consumption" (meaning off-the-job activities) is a thesis. To say it is to blame the masses more than the capitalists.<br /><br />This post is both wrong and sloppy, despite the familiarity of its pseudo-leftist jargon-tossing.Michael Dawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353560855423670828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-53583713998509166292010-05-27T11:33:55.262-05:002010-05-27T11:33:55.262-05:00It is wise to inquire into the meanings of others;...It is wise to inquire into the meanings of others; it is foolish to insist on your own.JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-57141547299540258572010-05-27T11:28:15.565-05:002010-05-27T11:28:15.565-05:00It's taken me a while to understand the direct...It's taken me a while to understand the direction from which Michael appears to be coming. I write "appears," because I'm only really guessing.<br /><br />A while back, MD really took rather violent umbrage with a SMBIVA sentiment I expressed, namely that whimbling about the evils of television doesn't do much about the existing effects of television. <br /><br />I had no context for how vociferously he responded, didn't see it coming, and as a fan of his website, was a bit taken aback. <br /><br />MD's approach seems superstructural - that is, he places the entire onus of degradation on the ruling class, and in the superstructure of relations they enforce. On the two occasions where I've seen him overreact to positions, it's been a reaction <i>to</i> perceived assertions that the laboring classes bear some responsibility for their own conditions, most specifically as consumers (consumers of imagery, and consumers belong to a consumptive culture).<br /><br />In neither case has the assertion actually been how MD read it, but I think he's honestly responding as if these objects of his ire are describing the material conditions of laborers and consumers as self-victimizations.Jack Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499087036876745723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-934018806004192482010-05-27T11:21:23.287-05:002010-05-27T11:21:23.287-05:00Peeps,
The image that comes to my mind concerning...Peeps,<br /><br />The image that comes to my mind concerning a "democratization of capital" is a mob trampling a security guard at a discount department store. Somehow, this sums up the spirit of the age, in contrast to those that came before it.<br /><br />I also have a technical definition to offer, but let us content ourselves to reflect on this image for right now.JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-5081719942945633682010-05-27T09:53:07.143-05:002010-05-27T09:53:07.143-05:00mike,
that link seems to imply that filling an emp...mike,<br />that link seems to imply that filling an empty gas tank means the car will never be an abandoned hunk of metal. it will. our desire to stretch our own capital doesn't change that.<br />regarding figure 1, i don't intend to wipe my ass every time i decide to take a shit. but alas, it keeps happening.<br />further, language is dynamic, not static. the fact that consumption was a disease at the turn on the 20th century does not prove that it's contemporary meaning is somehow meaningless or wrong.<br />finally, i tend not to trust writers who ride the term "big business". if you wanna play "kill ideas with semantics", i'd say "big business" is a better target that "consumer", which denotes something we all clearly understand. (even YOU understood the intended meaning!!!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-18449739069386553732010-05-27T08:22:32.218-05:002010-05-27T08:22:32.218-05:00Well, to say there's no such thing as a "...Well, to say there's no such thing as a "culture of consumerism" is itself just fucking stupid. I'm not sure about the "democratization of capital" point myself--I'm not sure what it means, for one. But perhaps there might have been a marginally less dickheaded way you could have argued your point?Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014014605639738887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-16576880717908489332010-05-27T01:55:44.253-05:002010-05-27T01:55:44.253-05:00This must be one of those posts where you either l...This must be one of those posts where you either love it, or you hate it, or you think it's just okay!JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-64063413995789292262010-05-27T00:08:42.490-05:002010-05-27T00:08:42.490-05:00Read what more carefully? There is no such thing ...Read what more carefully? There is no such thing as a "culture of consumerism" and its wasn't the general will that invited capital to dominate the whole of life. There is corporate marketing, and there are people trying to live their lives under its onslaught. There most certainly has never been any "democratization of capital."<br /><br />This is confused gibberish that buries the point. Alas, this is what has passed for analysis on this topic among us lefties ever since Marcuse thought every Negro had a Cadillac...Michael Dawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353560855423670828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-72195350034288188042010-05-26T17:02:39.798-05:002010-05-26T17:02:39.798-05:00Michael read more carefully.Michael read more carefully.Coldtypehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09509152474515164151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-30174663155312822102010-05-26T16:19:08.490-05:002010-05-26T16:19:08.490-05:00Christ, this is terrible. The democratization of ...Christ, this is terrible. The <b>democratization of capital</b>? WTF are you talking about?<br /><br />And there is no such things as a "consumer," at least not in the sense you're attempting. Hence, "consumerism" and "consumer culture" are not merely idiocy on stilts, but also a very deep and destructive penetration of rank capitalist bias into purportedly leftist analysis of how the world works.<br /><br />Look before you leap, please.<br /><br />http://www.consumertrap.com/consumer-biasMichael Dawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09353560855423670828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-68313181424478513942010-05-26T16:00:08.391-05:002010-05-26T16:00:08.391-05:00Linking consumption, gaming and messaging:
http:/...Linking consumption, gaming and messaging:<br /><br />http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/50953Jack Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499087036876745723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-42953452021300563222010-05-26T14:54:39.801-05:002010-05-26T14:54:39.801-05:00Christ, this is good.Christ, this is good.Jack Crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499087036876745723noreply@blogger.com