tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post432678790118151893..comments2023-10-24T11:03:41.388-05:00Comments on ladypoverty: J.R. Boydhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09076895859826581960noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-17817139829014413152009-09-23T22:15:04.571-05:002009-09-23T22:15:04.571-05:00Beck may be charismatic in his own way. But so ar...Beck may be charismatic in his own way. But so are lots of people -- including those with a much firmer grasp of who the "elite" really are, and just how much "freedom" we enjoy when we step foot on their property or elect those from their ranks into public office.JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-35243569972998957522009-09-21T12:01:21.836-05:002009-09-21T12:01:21.836-05:00JRB,
Agreed. But I think Beck's draw is not on...JRB,<br />Agreed. But I think Beck's draw is not only the resources he employs but the psychotic bullshit as well. <br /><br />He cries on TeeVee and gets real close to the camera. He is worried about the direction of the country. Basically, he wraps everything up in a nice package. Every important "values voter" sponsered issue is a talking point in his attack on socialism, communism etc.<br /><br />The followers I have spoken to do not need to know what they think on any particular issue, they can simply support HIM and his rhetoric.<br /><br />Fuck party-minded progressives. These people are worth it. But I think the only way to reach them is with an earnest and extremely focused push based on one or two issues like labor, healthcare or ending the corporate ownership of government. <br /><br />Other issues must be discarded to focus a new coalition of working class people that for too long have been divided to fight amongst themselves for corporate interests. <br /><br />Did this make any sense...I am unsure.d.mantishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03817778296282926641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-38001282446315939762009-09-19T02:22:24.371-05:002009-09-19T02:22:24.371-05:00Isn't there a more persuasive argument to be m...Isn't there a more persuasive argument to be made on the subject of "oligarchy," etc., than whatever Glenn Beck comes up with?<br /><br />I've always maintained that this is a resource war, and that is the only reason Beck "makes sense" to anyone: he has a platform to address them, in the absence of anything else. <br /><br />The point of having a "left" in this country would be to establish "something else": an argument that would contextualize people's problems in a rational way. Also, people willing to deliver it. <br /><br />Of course, this assumes we think the people left wanting for lack of anything else are worth fighting for, which many party-minded progressives do not.JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-57667133543739353142009-09-17T12:07:40.220-05:002009-09-17T12:07:40.220-05:00While the marchers have many common interests with...While the marchers have many common interests with the working class, the bridge between them and a movement by the working class may be too large.<br /><br />The Beck's, Hannity's and O'Reilly's (read: corporate sponsers) have perfected the game of divide and conquer. The only chance is to provide a movement that is louder than the lunatics.<br />Unfortunately, it must be louder than the mainstream liberal (read: corporate sponsors again) lunatics as well. <br /><br />It may end up that the only thing mainstream liberals and the 912ers would come together on is to attack this working class movement.d.mantishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03817778296282926641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-71924609594266715072009-09-17T09:03:55.302-05:002009-09-17T09:03:55.302-05:00Of course, we should investigate who these people ...Of course, we should investigate who these people are (not as a means of destroying them and gathering intelligence, but as a means to understanding them and where they come from), but the fact is, whoever marched, a lot of working class people support corporate interests, for one party or the other. This is an excellent post. This almost makes me believe in the people again.Cüneythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09839492265797382364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-56370455488846700692009-09-15T12:11:23.738-05:002009-09-15T12:11:23.738-05:00cemmcs,
Perhaps I am guilty of overrepresenting th...cemmcs,<br />Perhaps I am guilty of overrepresenting the sample I saw first hand. The protest held in my fair city was one of the largest that inevitably represented a sample locally rather than nationally.<br /><br />Nevertheless, my point was to highlight that certain people would rather get very excited about placing blame and reveling in anger rather than honestly studying why we are in the situation we are in.<br /><br />I agree with Truth Excavator that it was not a working class event. Yet, these people seemed of the working class, just focused to another's interests, hence all the smoke and no fire.d.mantishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03817778296282926641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-63081612425581846512009-09-14T23:22:56.593-05:002009-09-14T23:22:56.593-05:00Do we really know what socio-economic group they a...Do we really know what socio-economic group they are comprised of?cemmcsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-42435823052187171712009-09-14T11:59:12.816-05:002009-09-14T11:59:12.816-05:00JRB,
I agree that they are being organized around ...JRB,<br />I agree that they are being organized around someone else's interests. However, for the most part these are people with middle to upper-middle-class incomes that have not seen quite as hard a time as the middle to lower working class.<br /><br />Therefore, they have insurance, 401k, minivan and suburban home...screw the reform and government be damned! <br /><br />While explaining simple common interests of the 'working class' would probably make sense to them, they are much more eager to blame the curretn demagogue. That is what they can get excited and organized about...not unfortunately 'real issues'.d.mantishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03817778296282926641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-38701064718057012022009-09-13T22:39:25.547-05:002009-09-13T22:39:25.547-05:00Alex Jones? Really? Despite her numerous beliefs i...Alex Jones? Really? Despite her numerous beliefs in conspiracy theories, I'd perfer a Nader/ Mckinney team up.Jennynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-4614484873392793452009-09-13T15:40:17.157-05:002009-09-13T15:40:17.157-05:00Yeah, I agree, the effort must be made to educate ...Yeah, I agree, the effort must be made to educate and lead these people. But the progressives on the Left are not trying. The only minority willing enough to direct this mass of stupidity are the Ron Paul click/Alex Jones tribe, who detest both the republicans and the democrats, and have real integrity. <br /><br />If Ron Paul and Ralph Nader, two independent politicians, extend hands once again as they did during the 08 election, and form a new third party, then that could drown out this Dick Armey constituency, which has yet to become a movement. The time is ticking, though, because these people are committed and serious. Some of these are the same old christian fascists who are itching for 2010 and 2012, and the Democratic party is serving nothing but meat to them. It is completely scary, because I had no idea these people could be mobilized this quickly. And the German communist had balls, there is no comparable force in America yet. But it is there, independents are the majority in most states, and they could be mobilized just as greatly. These confused republicans are not as influential as they think they are.Saman Mohammadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00901309111851547218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-92019757369863335202009-09-13T14:04:00.818-05:002009-09-13T14:04:00.818-05:00As you suggest, the working class can either be or...As you suggest, the working class can either be organized around their own interests, or somebody else's.<br /><br />What's happening now is they are being organized around somebody else's. That <i>is</i> scary, for all the reasons you mention. <br /><br />Nonsense can masquerade as a "movement" only as long as there's money behind it and no one's around to make a better argument. At least the German communists tried!JRBhttp://ladypoverty.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5461044.post-41372737579843312522009-09-13T12:47:13.789-05:002009-09-13T12:47:13.789-05:00Good points.
There were a lot of confused passio...Good points. <br /><br />There were a lot of confused passions, and uninformed claims in that march on Washington, which is very disturbing, but I still think it is a positive development in the political landscape, if it gets to be directed by independent and visionary leaders instead of demagogues in the pocket of corporate titans. <br /><br />But it is scary. Let's not forget that Nazism was a national and religious phenomenon, largely made up of the working classes and unemployed, who got screwed in the end because Hitler was loyal to the industrial and business giants in Germany, who propped him up. <br /><br />But I don't see the march yesterday as a working class event, chiefly because the participants were not screaming "give us jobs." These folks want government totally out of their lives, so it is not conservative either. Nazism promised breads and jobs, highway constructions, and a renewal of the land. So far, this doesn't look like a fascist event either. It is still too early to tell. But history is being made, there is no doubt about that.Saman Mohammadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00901309111851547218noreply@blogger.com