Saturday, September 11, 2004

10 comments:

gecko said...

I wonder if they could find enough shoes for all the people in these...

9/13/2004 12:18:00 AM
Sheryl said...

Gecko's point gets us back to the question of how to ensure that Iraq ends up with a clean democracy rather than just some US backed thug in charge. Cause if I recall correctly the US helped put Saddam Hussein in power.

The US doesn't have the best track record in helping establish clean governments abroad. Especially in less stable areas of the world. The US policy has tended to be --better the devil you know than the devil you don't. And you can really see that with this new interim government, where just about everyone has gone to school in the US or worked with the CIA. But is that really in the best long term interests for a democratic Iraq?

9/13/2004 08:55:00 AM
J.R. Boyd said...

These are important things to think about. It's hard to understand how the same cast of characters (Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.)that supported Hussein through the worst of his crimes now feel uniquely qualified to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq. Under different circumstances, one might expect them to be charged alongside Hussein for what they contributed to his regime (weapons, American contracts for chemical agents, financing, etc.). It's important to remember that all of this was perfectly acceptable at the time--in other words, when these mass graves were being filled--because Iran was our enemy, and Saddam's victims a secondary consideration.

9/13/2004 10:27:00 AM
Sheryl said...

And why was Iran our enemy? Because the CIA decided to overturn Dr. Mohammad Mossadeq when he decided to nationalize iranian oil, and the Shah of Iran's secret police SAVAK went around torturing and murdering anyone opposed to him. So naturally the iranians were not pleased with the U.S. or the Shah. (I think I read that Amnesty International said some of the worst human rights violations of that time occurred from the SAVAK secret police.)

Hey, listen to this NPR clip from Morning Edition March 16, 1984.

9/13/2004 02:53:00 PM
J.R. Boyd said...

Not that the Reaganites didn't also (secretly) sell arms to Iran, mind you.

9/13/2004 03:44:00 PM
Sheryl said...

Good point!! I didn't even think about that.

And closer to home, it was Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts who pushed for the Senate inquiry that lead to the whole Iran Contra investigation.

9/13/2004 05:17:00 PM
gecko said...

I think such things are going to be harder to get away with due to advances in surveillance and the speed of information flow. Not to appear convinced of the existence of puppet govt, but I think Saddam became the dog in the kennel that started foaming at the mouth. Twelve years was too long a time to decide to remove him from the pen.

9/14/2004 03:33:00 AM
gecko said...

Oh, I forgot to mention that I do believe that Iraq can have an elective form govt by the end of next year, the key will be to route the terrorists and extremists from their base and truly "assist" the Iraqis in rebuilding their infrastructure.

9/14/2004 03:46:00 AM
Sheryl said...

Gecko, what if the "extremists" are just mad Iraqis who don't think the US government has any business shoving their values and interests down the Iraq's throat? Maybe some of them have loved ones who were part of the "collateral damage" of this war.

It's not really democracy if you decide which voices will be heard. The point to democracy is that ALL voices are heard. Or put another way, selective democracy is not democracy.

9/14/2004 08:53:00 AM
gecko said...

Sorry, I forgot to go down this far for posts. The people you would be refering to are what I mean by the extremists' base; to remove the extremists and any need for their "cause".

9/19/2004 12:01:00 AM

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